DallasFood.org Forums: Japanese Beef - DallasFood.org Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Japanese Beef

#1 User is offline   Scott 

  • Posts: 200
  • Joined: 26-October 10

Posted 07 December 2007 - 04:37 PM

[Split from the Hanger Steak thread...]

FatCap said:

I can confirm that the menu includes the offer of genuine, from-Japan, Kobe strip steak, supposedly A5 (highest possible) graded, at $26 per ounce.

Thanks for the excellent report, FatCap.

You may have already seen this, but, if not, check out this summary on Japanese Beef Grading. It's interesting to compare the image of BMS #5 (the equivalent of USDA Prime, which we pay a fortune for at the best steak houses in America) with those of the higher "beef marbling standard" grades. For an impressive photo, scroll down in this Urasawa review on the ChuckEats blog to see what BMS #10 looks like in real life.

If BLT Steak is using Grade 5 beef, that means it has to have a BMS # between 8 and 12. For $26 an ounce ($260 for a modest-sized steak), I'd probably ask to see the beef before ordering, just to make sure it has the kind of marbling it ought to.

Scott

#2 User is offline   FatCap 

  • Posts: 282
  • Joined: 26-October 10

Posted 09 December 2007 - 03:22 AM

Scott--DFW said:


You may have already seen this, but, if not, check out this summary on Japanese Beef Grading. It's interesting to compare the image of BMS #5 (the equivalent of USDA Prime, which we pay a fortune for at the best steak houses in America) with those of the higher "beef marbling standard" grades. For an impressive photo, scroll down in this Urasawa review on the ChuckEats blog to see what BMS #10 looks like in real life.

If BLT Steak is using Grade 5 beef, that means it has to have a BMS # between 8 and 12. For $26 an ounce ($260 for a modest-sized steak), I'd probably ask to see the beef before ordering, just to make sure it has the kind of marbling it ought to.

Scott


The first link couldn't load. I will try again later to access it.

I enjoyed reading that second link. Thanks! The shimofuri (marbling pattern) is just beautiful to me.

Ever since my first taste of Kobe beef, just a few slices, in Japan, a few years ago, I'd eagerly waited for its import restrictions to be lifted. Finally, I got my hands on some grade 10 or 11 (according to my estimation and that of one of the very top chefs in Dallas) marble beef shortly before Thanksgiving and made a gift of part of my stash (donnaaries saw the 10-oz. ribeye just before I presented the gift) to the mentioned chef, then prepared the remainder for my family's Thanksgiving dinner. I prepared the steaks very simply: seasoned with kosher salt and quickly seared "true rare" on a grill that had been on high heat (empty) for about 30 minutes (sadly, I didn't have any binchotan). The meat is unctuously rich, with a taste and in-mouth aroma a bit reminiscent of great olive oil. The "sashi" in the beef, according to the purveyor, starts to melt at about 25C (77F), so the meat was literally melting at mouth temperatures. Though utterly delicious and conveying a sense of complete luxury, so rich was the taste and feel that I couldn't eat more than about six small slices of it, which probably summed to 3-4 ounces. My family members had the same experience with it. It struck me then that the reason I had been served such small amounts of Kobe beef in Japan was not just a matter of cost, but also that no one would eat more than a few pieces of it. It's terrific with teriyaki sauce, by the way.

Still, you're absolutely right: I'd ask to see the raw beef, too, just for the joy of it, for a food geek such as I am.

I'm planning another trip to Japan in the near future. One of my goals this time is to seek out and taste Matsuzaka beef, considered to be superior to even Kobe beef in quality and much higher in price. According to a Japanese chefsworking here in Dallas, Matsuzaka beef is "the best" and is quite rare (another chef dissented in favor of "Yonezawa beef", which I've never heard of). It was explained as being the same cattle breed as Kobe gyu, which would make it Tajima cattle, raised with similar methods in Mie prefecture (Kobe is in Hyogo prefecture)

One of the sites where I learned about the grading scale:
http://www.sweetwate....com/wagyu.html

a photo: http://www.flickr.co...orke/286177883/

another: http://upload.wikime...org/wikipedia/e ... detail.jpg

a NY Times mention: http://query.nytimes.../gst/fullpage.h ... %20Disease

from a prospective place to eat (but I'd have to visit Yokohama, which is not currently on my intinerary; I'll have to try to find it in another city):
http://www12.plala.o...turuya242-2917/

from a Kyoto candidate:
http://r.gnavi.co.jp...466000/menu.htm


Whew...perhaps you should move this to its own thread :twisted:

#3 User is offline   Mardrew 

  • Posts: 2
  • Joined: 26-October 10

Posted 10 December 2007 - 05:23 PM

Does anyone know the best place to get a hold of some Kobe beef.
(imported or American grow)?

#4 User is offline   foodczar 

  • Posts: 52
  • Joined: 26-October 10

Posted 10 December 2007 - 06:08 PM

I LOVE Kobe Beef (even though I can't have it very often since it is quite pricey). Do you guys happen to know of any place in Dallas where Matsuzaka beef is available? I'm assuming it may not be available here at all.

#5 User is offline   FatCap 

  • Posts: 282
  • Joined: 26-October 10

Posted 10 December 2007 - 06:37 PM

Mardrew said:

Does anyone know the best place to get a hold of some Kobe beef.
(imported or American grow)?


"Kobe beef" is a oft-misused term (especially by restaurants). Kobe beef comes exclusively from Japan's Kobe region, Hyogo prefecture, from specific breeds of cattle. Consider an analogue: Champagne comes only from Champagne, France.

Kobe-style beef ("American Kobe" or "American wagyu") is often harvested from cross-bred Tajima/Black Angus cattle. Major ranches exist all over the central and western US.

If you want to try cooking your own--Kobe-style beef is now widely available: I've seen Central Market carry the Texas-raised Kobe-style beef Dallas restaurants have served for years. For experimentation, also pick up some of the very good Black Angus from the same meat case. A side-by-side tasting reveals the nuances (including the umami) of each.

It might have been a limited or trial case, but I also saw American Kobe-style beef in the Allen Bros. meat case at some of the flagship Sigel's Liquor stores.

The chef from Chamberlain's Steakhouse in Addison reports that the restaurant serves, on request, beef from a pure-blood strain of Texas raised red Japanese (which, and I am totally guessing here, would be Kumamoto or Kochi strain). It's been a long time since I've dined at Chamberlain's, and the availability of this item is one reason why a return is overdue.

#6 User is offline   MarbleousBeef 

  • Posts: 4
  • Joined: 26-October 10
  • LocationWaxahachie

Posted 21 January 2008 - 02:04 PM

How would be the best way to market this type of beef to the public. Would anyone be willing to buy this at a lot less than $26 per oz.

#7 User is offline   DonnieC 

  • Posts: 455
  • Joined: 26-October 10

Posted 21 January 2008 - 04:08 PM

Dear (Stalking Horse) Marbleous
In my opinion there never will be a "public" market for this type of beef.
I think it's place in high end steakhouses and the best Japanese restaurants is the only way most Americans will ever experience it. Even at $10/oz, it is so far out of the main pricing structure that we see in grocery/meat stores that it just doesn't compute.

My example would be "dry aged" beef. The aforementioned Allen Bros sells boneless ribeyes dry and wet and the difference is about 20% more for the dry. I have seen the mark up for dry to be as much as 30% in grocery stores that carry it. The point being that no one much buys the dry aged, which is a clearly superior taste over wet from a type of beef that they understand, because it is marginally higher in price.

Try to sell that same cut in Kobe style beef side by side with regular (wet or dry) and you'll get no takers at all. I have seen a number of groceries trumpet the addition of "dry aged beef" to their meat case only to see it disappear 3 months later because of lack of interest.

I also am reminded of the old program to sell Emu. It really did taste like beef, looked like beef, was leaner and tasted great but Simon David (before Central & Whole Foods, THE place to buy groceries) tried to sell it at a price near "regular" beef and it quickly disappeared, never to be seen again.

My guess would be that less than 1/4 of 1% of the US population would be interested in Kobe style beef (as good as it is and I do like it) and most of them are rich and don't cook at home. They'll gladly try it at Nick & Sams or Tei Tei on the expense account for the "wow" factor but not from Simon David for use on the patio bbq.

#8 User is offline   FatCap 

  • Posts: 282
  • Joined: 26-October 10

Posted 01 August 2008 - 07:29 AM

Aka-ushi sightings (in addition to the previously mentioned Ounce Prime Steakhouse and Chamberlain's Steak & Chop):

* the restaurant week menu for Central 214 (chicken fried; I'm skeptical)

* Landmark Restaurant and Library Bar at the Warwick Melrose (now helmed by Jeff Moschetti; Menus here; also note the hanger steak on the lunch and brunch menus)

anybody seen the red cow elsewhere?
(I feel like a UFO hunter, LOL)

#9 User is offline   ChefHung 

  • Posts: 26
  • Joined: 26-October 10

Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:35 PM

FORBES discussed the Kobe beef "lie".

Be sure to read the WHOLE series

Discussion?

This post has been edited by ChefHung: 16 April 2012 - 09:36 PM


#10 User is offline   Kirk 

  • Posts: 850
  • Joined: 26-October 10

Posted 21 April 2012 - 03:56 PM

Can't argue with the author's point(s). I am a little surprised he didn't talk about the cigar market, too.

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic